[Physics] Normal reactions with moments

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A uniform ladder, $AB$, is leaning against a smooth vertical wall on rough horizontal ground at an angle of $70°$ to the horizontal. The ladder has length $8\ \rm m$, and is held in equilibrium by a frictional force of magnitude $60\ \rm N$ acting horizontally at $B$, as shown in the diagram. Write down the magnitude of the normal.

The normal reaction makes both A and B rotate, so I don't understand how we can ignore it by taking the moment at B OR A?

I have 60*8cos20 on the LHS (clockwise) = X*9.8*4sin20 (anti) but then I remember the normal force and it feels like I should add everything from the LHS to the RHS and I don't understand why that's wrong.

If I'm taking the moment at B, the 60N to the left frictional force still makes point -A rotate clockwise. and the Normal force, makes point A rotate anti-clockwise, so I still can't ignore it?

Similarly, there have been other seesaw questions, where I am told if I take the moment at the pivot then I can ignore the reaction at the pivot. Sure, but isn't there still a normal reaction from the seesaw back up into the (particle) weights on top of them?

Please can someone explain the simple thing I must be doing incorrectly, thanks!

Best Answer

In situations like this, it doesn't mean the force no longer matters, it's just saying that a force doesn't have a torque about the point at which it is applied.

The torque of a force $\mathbf F$ applied at position $\mathbf r$ relative to the point you are calculating the torque about is given by $$\mathbf\tau=\mathbf r\times\mathbf F$$ If you are calculating the torque about the point where the force is applied, then the torque of that force is $0$ because $\mathbf r=0$

You might be confused because you are thinking "if a force causes rotation about some point then it has a torque." But the issue is you have to specify the point you are calculating the torque about first. You can't talk about torques without first specifying the point you are "looking at". In other words, the statement "A force has a torque of $\tau\ \rm{N\cdot m}$" is meaningless.

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